The Mailbox ponders the prospect of Harry Kane doing the unthinkable. Also: swerving sponsors; Saudi motivation; and the David De Gea farce at Man Utd…
Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com…
Steering clear of sponsors and sounds
Graham Simons’ mail on Friday morning about swerving sponsors brought to mind other avoidance tactics I’ve applied on match days in the past, and will continue to do.
Whoever Chelsea (for they are the team I support, for my sins) are playing on any given match day will influence the clothing worn on the day and choices of music to listen to right up to kick-off. Say Chelsea are playing a Manchester team there will be no Oasis or The Smiths etc. on Spotify for me. I’ll have band names in my head and try to think of where they’re from so as to not listen to them by accident.
We all know that music listened to on match day by a musician or band from the city of the opposing team gives the opposition some kind of karmatic head start. It gets much worse if the musician or (perish the thought) the entire band are known supporters of the opposting team. The match is essentially lost before a ball is kicked. It goes without saying that clothes with any hint of opposition colours are a no-go on match day as well.
I also totally agree with swerving sponsors. Despite coming from Denmark as well myself I will never drink Carlsberg as long as they are associated with Liverpool.
Supporting a football team is hard work.
Cheers
Martin in Zürich (South of Bremen)
Kane to Arsenal?
Seeing as it’s Friday, and therefore the time for nonsensical drivel, I thought I’d share my ridiculous prediction concerning a one Harold Kane.
Whilst it seems more likelier that he’ll join Bayern Munich than ever before, there’s still something that doesn’t quite sit right. The PL all-time goals record, uprooting his young family, and whether a Bundesliga title would scratch the itch for a trophy for a player who’s spent his entire career in England; I can’t help but feel that the move doesn’t happen and Kane continues to angle for a move to Big Six club (Newcastle now replacing Tottenham of course).
However, it seems to be crystal clear that Levy won’t entertain any offers from Man Utd unless it’s ridiculously high, City no longer require him, Chelsea are a basket case and Liverpool have a ton of forwards already. Newcastle are no guarantee of silverware either. I have a feeling that Kane may actually end up seeing out the season at Spurs (after Levy dicks around over the summer rejecting offers before realising in the last week of August that he’s about to lose Kane for nothing next year).
So, here’s my silly prediction: after another season where Arsenal run City close but still lose out on the title, the main driving factor determined is the lack of an out-and-out goalscorer. Cue Sir Harry, available on a free, with no need to uproot his family, and the opportunity to play for his actual boyhood team. I think he’ll Campbell himself down the Seven Sisters, link up with fellow England team mates Ramsdale, Rice and Saka, and 2024/25 will see Arsenal win the Premier League with Kane firing the team to glory.
Could this actually come to fruition, or is this simply a case of me not yet having my morning coffee?
Ronson (it could happen!), AFC
Kane’s quest
All this talk about how having a “goal scoring record” and being a “one club legend” would also mean a lot got me thinking, does it really? In the long term would Kane be given absolutely any kind of respect in terms of a footballing phenomenon? I highly doubt it. Let me give you a few examples of how history may not really be kind to many.
Alan Shearer: I started watching football around 2004 to just see a bit of him playing. I know he is the record goal scorer. I know he is supposed to be a really top top player. But having just known two things about him: he plays for Newcastle, he has won the league with Blackburn but not much else. I would rate Rooney, Aguero, Kane, Tevez, Drogba, Cantona (just from the stories) and many more way way above him.
Why? Because they are legends who are serial winners. Never having seen a single clip of Matt Le Tisier, I just put him in the same bracket as Defoe for Sunderland, a great player for a small club. Respect them, but never a legend. Now i know people will come & say “how can you comment when you haven’t seen him play”. But that’s precisely it isnt it. I haven’t watched Pele or Maradonna either, neither have i seen much of Cantona, Bergkamp etc but i know who they are because they WON. They are counted in the top tier of players. Today would you rather have the career of Gerrard or have the career of Gundogan, Kovacic etc.
Another example, does anyone really know who the Serie A record scorer is ? Who was it in La Liga pre Messi-Ronaldo? I mean people genuinely don’t care unless its one of their own players.
10-20 years down the line, will people really remember the quality of Harry Kane? Or just meaningless stats ?? If Spurs become a mid table club, will he even be viewed as a great player we see today?? Or just another one who was a big fish in a small pond comparable to Tissier, Phillips, Defoe etc? The future isn’t kind to the past. Stats aren’t taken into account when talking about legends like Ronaldinho, Rivaldo etc. They are legends because they created history by winning with big clubs. Would people really rate Terry if he won nothing? Or Drogba? Or Aguero? or R. Ferdinand? I highly doubt they would even be in the conversation.
Sure, Kane will have tons of money (like most other footballers). But 20-30-50 years down the line, he won’t even be a footnote in the world of football if he finishes his career without a league or champions league title. Even an FA or EFL cup isn’t enough. Decades later, the sentence “Kane is the highest scorer of Premier League titles…” will always be followed by “…but he never won the league! Can you imagine!”. it will be a novelty fact purely focusing on the fact he never won a trophy, because that sounds insane for a record holder.
If Kane wants to be remembered forever, go to Bayern, go to Madrid, go to Chelsea, go to United. Go anywhere you want to fight for the league and CL. Or else it’s a career which only Spurs fans will fondly remember decades later.
Also, do we not think Haaland can score 300 -350 goals+ in 10 seasons (he is 22 currently) . Is it really that much of a deal if someone will just surpass Kane in a few years or so? If I was flithy rich like Kane, I would be ready to play for free for a year just to win the damn league! There is ZERO advantage staying with Spurs, other than a flooding of memes about a failed career and jokes about how he has won nothing.
Aman
…I just have to chuckle at myself with all the talk about Kane’s decision between being the all time goal scorer and leaving to win a trophy. Shearer’s latest comment about driving Harry abroad made me laugh.
If Harry stays and passes Shearer’s 260 PL goals he will be (checks notes) the 6th highest scorer in top flight English football behind Jimmy Greaves (357), Steve Bloomer (314), Dixie Dean (310), Gordon Hodgson (288) and Shearer himself who actually has 283 top flight goals…
If we’re to consider Kane the greatest goal scorer when he hits 261 then his trophyless cabinet will be a moot point because he has won the Audi Cup, or perhaps it can be regarded as Wenger’s infamous 4th place trophy – nice place to be in, but not really a trophy.
Steve AFC Australia
PS All my ill feeling towards Kane for the many goals he’s scored vs us would go away if he signs abroad and brings up the fact that the only record he cared about would have been the 358 goals.
Evidence Mounts
Semi-bizarrely, the Mason Mount stuff had me thinking about a video on youtube of Prince Naseem Hamed commentating on the George Groves vs Chris Eubank Jr fight.
Bored at pundits calmy debating the technical abilities of Eubank and where he might go next, Naz and his considerable 5ft4 frame interrupt with a 2-minute monologue repeating “You’re either good at boxing or you’re not”, before finally asking “which camera can I look into to tell Eubanks to retire?”.
When we signed Lukaku, Fellaini and Maguire I knew that, whatever other/physical qualities they possess… they’re not good* at football. Or boxing, presumably.
Although Maguire was cheered and applauded** when warming up on the touchline last season, there was an audible groan/ “f***s sake” around Old Trafford whenever he was announced in the starting XI. It’s nothing personal, it’s just because no one wants to watch a bad footballer. McTominay’s another example. 6ft 4, great engine, academy lad, can crack a ball when he wants to… but he’s just not very good at football.
Now onto Mount as it seems we might actually, potentially, possibly sign him. Maybe. I’m no England fan but whenever I’ve seen him I think “lovely footballer”, so it’s been a shock to see the (at best) apathy from United fans about the move.
I’ll admit he’s rarely made me think “wow”, and the same goes for Havertz, but they’re continually picked for elite(ish) club and country because being good at football is quite important to managers, even if you rarely beat a man, lash it in from 30 yards or do a rabona.
Look at what Guardiola has done to Grealish, every ounce of wow has gone from his game and Jack now holds the ball up and waits for De Bruyne or the fullback like a good inverted Man City robot winger should do.
Sort of lost track of my point here but all three of Havertz to Arsenal, Maddison to Spurs (less silky but will do his best Bruno impression) and Mount to us make sense and strengthen the team.
Except for Chelsea, who will sack Pochettino before Christmas and flirt with relegation again.
* f***ing terrible
** not by me
Simon MUFC
De Gea dilemma
So, regarding the matter with De Gea being offered a contract, then United withdrawing their offer blah blah blah, point being is that United & De Gea both need a fresh start and it’s time to go separate ways. United don’t seem to value De Gea as they once did and is understandable in the sense that De Gea hasn’t been at his peak since the end of the 2017/18 season. You could argue that the team hasn’t been the same as well since this period, but De Gea has made a LOT of errors in the last five years, with some of them really bizarre in terms of concentration. I think United just need to be straight with him given he has played for United for 12 years and done pretty well overall, but get Onana or someone like Pickford for the time being, keep Heaton for cover and actually sell a player, Henderson looks bound for Forest.
Also, the delay for this takeover from the Qatari’s with the Glazers is something else, Ten Haag must be thinking this is a bit of a sh*tshow eh? Anyways, just get it f*cking sorted, it taking forever! I think it’s probably mostly the Glazers being greedy twats, but its July tomorrow and nothing official confirmed yet. The Mount signing seems to be confirmed, but once again took a long time. United fans and staff members need to be realistic now regarding who can be signed until the ownership is sorted, and even then it may take a while to get a cash injection, as selling players for United seems almost impossible, or know one within the club has actually be assigned the role of placing some players on the transfer list. Surely Ten Haag will want to sell 2-3 of them, a few on loan perhaps, or perhaps a tactic from Ten Haag to get the players fully on his side in the long term. Players like Martial & Maguire aren’t so called United players who are going to compete as a Top 4 team each year, and that’s only Top 4 not even for trophies.
If United want to have a ‘good’ summer in terms of targets (Arsenal have certainly shown a lot more ambition, United need to match that once ownership is done & dusted), they need to sign a good keeper, a 20 goal a season striker, and a CB who can replace Maguire/Bailly. Realistic to a degree but will be easier said than done knowing United’s recent transfer windows.
Rami, Manchester
Read more: Dave’s last day? De Gea farce highlights more muddled thinking at Man Utd…
Football inflation
I am old enough to remember Trevor Francis as the first £1m player back in c 1978. The first £2m was c 1990 and by virtue of Blackburns money £5m was reached in 94. Today decent players are hitting the hundred mark. If the 1978 to date footballer inflation ratio was attached to more necessary items like a home, car or a pint we would be driving modest £130k cars, living in £3.5m semis and enjoying cheeky pints for about £40. More appalled than angry.
Ted Bythesea (For the record avoid all purchases of products that rivals sponsor… It’s not hard)
Scouse maths origin
Alex, Denpasar asked in a previous Mailbox why people care about net spend, and/or why it’s called scouse maths. I would like to share what I consider to be the Scouse Maths Origin Story:
In Summer 2004, Liverpool signed right-back Josemi for approximately 2m.
In January 2006, Liverpool signed right-back Jan Kromkamp, in a literal swap deal. (I recall a fee being paid to Villareal in addition to Josemi moving, but I cannot find an amount to attribute to this transfer).
In January 2007, Liverpool signed right-back Alvaro Arbeloa for approximately 4m. Jan Kromkamp had been sold in August 2006 for approximately 3m.
At the time, the sentiment was that Liverpool did not have enough money to be able to compete with Utd and Chelsea (and foreign CL clubs) for top transfer targets. Other clubs’ fans used the gross amount spent by Liverpool on transfers as a way of trying to argue Liverpool had money but spent it badly. Liverpool fans used “net spend” as a way to demonstrate (correctly, in my opinion) how much money was actually invested into the team.
So how much did Rafa Benitez’s Liverpool spend on a right back – was it 6m+, or was it 3m? (And isn’t it funny that less than 20 years ago, the differences in these amounts actually mattered?)
The limitation of net spend/scouse maths is that one giant player sale completely obliterates the rest of the equation. We first saw this happen with Utd and Ronaldo in 2008, but Spurs and Bale + Liverpool and Suarez/Coutinho repeated the trick.
So yes, net spend isn’t that useful of a metric, at least not on its own in isolation. But it’s still probably more useful overall than focusing on gross spend. And it’s definitely still useful in specific cases as described above.
Oliver Dziggel, Geneva Switzerland
Chelsea, Clearlake and Saudis
Given that Chelsea were bought by venture capitalists I can’t say I’m surprised at the asset stripping. Let’s see if the money gets reinvested or if dividends shoot up?
The question I have is if the Saudi investment funds do have a significant stake in Clearlake why are they overpaying so heavily for assets they already nominally control? Is there a fraud happening to Launder money?
Anyway, it wouldn’t surprise me if Pochetino is being screwed by his paymasters over player purchases and sales at another sh*tty London club.
Nick K
Overrated
Morris… Emile Heskey. In my middle age, I can now understand he wasn’t a goal-scoring striker, that wasn’t his role. Hold up play and bringing others into the game etc. Too many managers kept on picking him for him to have actually been rubbish, but I can never shake that feeling. Have never rated, will never rate him. Didnt help that in my mind he forced my idol Robbie Fowler out of Liverpool (don’t really know if that is even slightly true, but thats how I saw it) so hate him for that. We lost God, but got God Awful in return.
As a Champ Man reply, Helder Postiga occupies a special little place in my bile duct for doing exactly what Huckerby did against you – always scored. Usually winners or late minute equalisers. The git.
Cheers
Clive (LFC)
Near-misses
Re Eric’s near misses, there are the goals that could have been beautiful and the goals that could have led to something beautiful. For the latter, two stand out. Both games conspicuously missing Roy Keane.
1) Ian Harte’s missed penalty v Spain in the 2002 WC. Ireland were well on top and could well have gone on to win instead of drawing and going out on pens. Then they would have played South Korea in the QF and potentially a rematch against Germany (whom they had already held their own against in the group stages) in the World Cup Semi bloody Final. What could have been!
2) Club level, it’s always Paul Scholes’ “offside” goal v Porto in 2004. Again, United were well on top when it should have counted (he was played on by 2-3 players). Qf v Lyon (whom United usually did well against), SF v a waning Deportivo, final v a very beatable Monaco team. A butterfly flaps its wings and Jose Mourinho never comes to England.
In terms of would-be beautiful goals that hit a post – Pirlo v England, Adriano v Juve, Suarez v Arsenal, that Messi free kick v Atletico and, in fairness, that Jamie Carragher strike in his last ever game.
Cheers
Jamie
For the love or the money
Paul K, London wrote in with a long entry on reasons why players might move to the Saudi league, and ends by concluding “if you think (money) is the only reason especially for the Muslim players then I think you are Islamophobic”.
I think money is the only reason players are moving to the Saudi league, and I do not think I am Islamophobic.
Then again, unlike Paul, I am aware that the Islamic world has had viable alternative football leagues for decades in the form of the Turkish SuperLig and the Egyptian league, among others. Some examples of players who have made this move, in no particular order: Ozil, Roberto Carlos, Wesley Sneijder, Robin van Persie, Nicolas Anelka, John Carew, Harry Kewell, Guti, Gheorghe Hagi, Franck Ribery, Frank de Boer, Didier Drogba, Claudio Taffarel, Deli Alli, Mauro Icardi, Marek Hamsik, Dries Mertens, Enner Valencia, Michy Batshuayi, Adnan Januzaj, Nathan Redmond, (the other) Trezeguet, Romain Saiss, Marc Bartra, and Jay-Jay Okocha.
But yes, thank the heavens for MBS and PIF finally providing footballers with a “viable alternative” to getting ‘sprayed with alcohol and pork’ (rolls eyes).
Paul wrote “this is not a few Chinese businesses scatter gun buying random players, this is not Americans bringing in Pele and Cruyff to fill their stadiums”. I disagree – yes it is, for all intents and purposes. Unless you want to make the point that the Saudi League clubs are basically all owned by the Saudi government (nothing suspicious about this, move along folks).
Oliver Dziggel, Geneva Switzerland
Lucky, lucky, lucky
I often see the words lucky or unlucky being used in reference to football. But I don’t think we use these words correctly.
A player hitting the post is not “unlucky ” (more on that in a minute).
Likewise a team going a full season and winning the title or winning pretty much any trophy is not and can never be “lucky”
Here is an example of luck – when a striker takes a shot, which ricochets off an illegal on field object and the referee for some insane reason allows the goal despite it being 100% illegal. Everything about that goal relies 100% on luck. Lucky that the object fell on the field at the exact time a shot was fired, it ricochet in just the right direction to bamboozle the keeper, and lucky that the referee completely and utterly forgot that goals bouncing off on field objects that shouldn’t be there – don’t count.
Those are once in a lifetime occurrences
To discuss unlucky I will recount an old Roberto baggio interview from his days at fiorentina….
After hitting both posts and the crossbar baggio was asked if he felt unlucky by a journalist. He replied “no….because if I hit the post or the bar it’s because I didn’t aim at the goal”
Unlucky and lucky events in football are extremely rare and just about everything in this sport is a example of technique or lack thereof.
Lee