The Mailbox reacts to a batsh*t mental match at Spurs, who receive plenty of credit for their kamikaze approach to playing with nine men. But there is plenty of support for Mikel Arteta too…
Get your views in to theeditor@football365.com in time for the afternoon Mailbox.
The morning after
Football. Bloody hell.
James, Gravesend. CFC and Ebbsfleet.
…That was fun, wasn’t it?
Between state owned clubs, oil clubs, winter world cups, a Saudi world cup, the Spanish world cup win being overshadowed, it’s been a while since football was genuinely fun.
I wish it was more often.
RW
…Bloody hell, all of the chaos you predicted from “Ange-ball” has arrived, all at once. Not sure I’ve ever seen such an insane match. Spurs really throwing it away here….
Henry, LFC
Valiant in defeat
City fan here so absolutely no dog in the fight particularly, but what a game that was last night. No searing insights or cutting match analysis from me. Except to say that Spurs were absolutely magnificent. Yes, their red cards were daft (Looking at you Romero & Udogie you utter kn*bs) but the skill, spirit and fight Tottenham displayed over the whole game was marvellous to see.
I know it’s illogical, but I think that was one of those rare cases where you don’t care about the final score because the sheer effort and team ethic was simply outstanding.
Well done Spurs. And if you were a fan that wasn’t excited about your new manager before last night, I’m certain sure you are now. Just brilliant.
Oh, and moaning Arsenal fans. If your manager and players could, or did, put in half the effort and desire at the weekend that the Lillywhites did last night, you wouldn’t be resorting to whingeing about VAR.
Chelsea. Yeah, four goals. But work in progress still, it seems to me, and that’s being kind.
Mark (Oh God, the mail from the imaginary Barry Fox is going to be mental, isn’t it?) MCFC.
A defeat better than Conte’s wins
As a Spurs fan, Oliver and VAR had an excellent game.
The only calls they could be questioned on are that Udogie and Romero should both have seen red (and clearly so in each case) before making sure they did -(worth asking, by the way, whether any large bets went on either being sent off in any of the global markets?).
Otherwise- all good calls on all the big decisions (and there were plenty).
Spurs utterly lost their heads after that Udogie tackle, from a position where Chelsea looked on the ropes for a the first ten mins.
Lots to be proud of in the Spurs performance thereafter and Romero should be deeply ashamed of himself looking out on the remainder of the game.
Our fans radically overrate him as a total package, because time after time he risks costing his team (and fellow professionals’ wellbeing) with utterly needless and pointless violence. It’s a dreadful trait in a centre half and I’d have VDV’s name on the sheet ahead of him every time already.
The result was done at ten men and one-all, but the injuries to Maddison and VDV are potentially far more important as far as the rest of the season goes.
Still- a beating that felt better than most Conte wins and Chelsea/Poch showed more flaw than fight in the circumstances- as long as we haven’t kickstarted their season with that they don’t look like a team to worry the top five/six this year.
Poch out.
Darragh, Spurs, Ireland
Rough road ahead for Ange
Ange and Spurs are about to go through some Ten Haag and Man Utd moments over the next few weeks. It will be interesting to see if the media and fans put it down to rotten luck and not having their best XI, or down to Ange being shit and not capable of improving his players despite who’s missing. I suspect it won’t be the latter.
Keeping a high line, down to 9 men, vs a Chelsea team who can basically only score from 1 v 1’s, with the score 1-1, was your first taste of “Ange got it wrong”, and again at 2-1, and again, again at 3-1. He was brave in his post match interview, and said he will stick with Ange-ball. Let’s see how that goes with the back ups starting.
Calvino
Challenge accepted
After possibly the worst VAR decision ever – and several other iffy ones – helped Spurs beat Liverpool, the reaction of their fan base was essentially “accept it & move on”.
Go on, then.
Stewart, Chicago LFC
Get behind Arteta
Disclaimer. I’m an Arsenal fan and love Mikel Arteta.
But here’s the thing. I also think Arsenal deserved to lose against Newcastle for their insipid display, and wasn’t even that worked up about the VAR fiasco because I felt that ultimately we got what we deserved.
At the same time, it strikes me as totally mad that football fans from other clubs now want to jump on the anti-mikel bandwagon and make fun of the bloke of his outburst.
He’s doing us all a favour and we need more managers to do the same.
We all hate VAR. It’s genuinely killing our game.
It is a disgrace, it is a farce and we would all be much better off without it.
Why the f*ck are we all sitting idly by whilst Howard Webb and his band of incompetent brothers – Madders, Jonesy, Olly, Talesy, Cootys, Adders, Scotyt, Pawsy..literally ruin our game, which we all love so much.
I don’t understand why more fans aren’t going mental about it and demanding change in the way they did with the Super League? This is much, much worse.
Why are we putting up with this? I just don’t get it.
So go on Mikel, and please, go on every single other Manager in the game.
Go f*cking mental the next time VAR robbs you on a Saturday.
That includes you Ange. Honest, I’ll support you 1000%.
And so should the rest of us.
They’re killing our beautiful game.
Max
…The revolution will not be televised (unless you pay a hefty subscription fee)
To quote a line from the Made in Dagenham musical, “nothing changes if it isn’t challenged”. So, to all the pundits, columnists, and rival fans who say Arteta, Arsenal, and Arsenal fans need to simply get over it, YOU are part of the problem. Certainly, if you’re satisfied with the Dad’s Army level of officiating in what is probably the most lucrative league in the world then, honestly, I’m jealous of your simple-minded contentment. EVERYBODY should be standing with Mikel Arteta. This isn’t about Arsenal or Newcastle, this is about the Premier League having the level of officiating to match the level of football. The money is there to have the best personnel and the best equipment. F***ing spend it. Why is there no line technology other than goal line? Why isn’t there at least a bloody linesman covering the entire line in the meantime?! It’s not a mystery. The PGMOL is an old boys club that doesn’t adapt well to change. When you listen to the audio of the farcical disallowed Diaz goal vs Spurs, who is the most competent person in the room?… It’s the bloody tech guy! Where are the young, sharp-of-mind geeks in this outfit? They need more power. Anyway, I’m getting slightly off point.
Among those calling for Arsenal to get over it are some who would like to remind you that it’s just a game. Well, it’s also a business. Careers and reputations are at stake. Prize money and trophies are at stake. Arsenal are absolutely right to come out and back their manager. Those who would clutch their pearls at Arsenal being so public are riding a very phoney high horse. And we’ve been here before with the disingenuous outrage at Arteta’s dramatic outbursts. Please, he’s saying what we’ve all been saying for some time now. This bollocks about the club backing his sentiments publicly being “disgraceful” or “setting a dangerous precedent” is just the typical traditional English small-mindedness. Or, as Guillem Balagué would put it more politely, “northern European sanctimony”. Arteta is not complaining about this singular mistake. This has been accumulating, and it’s easily fixable. We just don’t seem to have the power to affect change. And so, those who label Arteta a “whinger” are way off. This was full-blown rage, and quite justified, too.
I don’t think any Arsenal fan would claim we deserved to win that game. But, Bruno should quite clearly have been sent off in the first half, and the goal shouldn’t have stood. That same push on Gabriel was given as a freekick literally everywhere else on the pitch. Why not for the goal? In fairness, Havertz should have received a second yellow in the second half, but, would Arsenal have been so taxed against ten men? I don’t think so. And right there you have another thing VAR can be used for: potential second yellow card fouls and obvious cynical fouls. If for whatever reason VAR doesn’t think Bruno clotheslining Jorginho warrants a red then they shouldn’t let him get away with it altogether.
I didn’t really want to talk about the specific match incidents because they’ve been covered extensively already. And, I’ve already emailed in to complain about Neville co-commentating Arsenal games before, but, bloody hell… Sky, please f*** off.
Simon, Norf London Gooner
Good advice
When it comes to football, I get amazed every day at how 2 people can see the same incident yet come to wildly different conclusions. The very fact that within the F365 mailbox each day you get the continuous back and forth from people is to me absolute concrete proof that no matter what, we will never get refereeing decisions ‘correct’. There will always be people who disagree. Case in point the Arsenal/Newcastle match. 3 decisions to be made, yet we get various interpretations from all sorts in the mailbox. The ball was in, the ball was out! Yawn.
It’s hard, but you simply need to get over it. Accept the flaws. Accept that you will not always get what you want. Accept that decisions go against you. Accept that the laws of football can be subjective. Accept that one week you may get a decision, the next perhaps not. Accept that refs and players are fallible and make mistakes.
Do this, and I promise you that you will have a much happier life and you will enjoy football much more.
Basically, just bloody grow up eh? It’s a game after all…
Chris, on a hill, somewhere.
Love football, hate VAR
I’m a season ticket holder and I go to watch my football live. I’ve no idea whether offsides are correct or whether the ball has gone over the line or whether a tackle is a red card or not. Because I’m human and I’m watching the game from one perspective. For decades I accepted the decision of the referee. Didn’t mean I declined to hurl abuse or make my feelings known, I just fundamentally accepted that I didn’t know, so assumed the refs were broadly right. But when we scored and the ref pointed to the half way line and the linesman scurried back with his flag down, you knew it was a goal. You could celebrate or commiserate accordingly.
VAR is a disaster. I wrote in a few years back about the fact VAR was sucking the atmosphere out of the live experience and broadly speaking F365 ridiculed me and took the piss. That’s ok, but I was right, it’s killing the atmosphere at games because “you just never know”
So here’s the answer, get rid of VAR but at the same time get rid of 30 cameras at every game. Just have two cameras each side of the half way line and one behind each goal. People can still watch the football and enjoy the game without some ex pundit analysing every decision with the benefit of “in line” technology. Then we’d all be none the wiser together and could go back to just accepting the referee doing their best.
“Was it offside Jeff?
“No f*cking idea mate but the ref waved play on”
“We’ll be back after this break”
We’d still argue and bitch and moan but just like every fan does at the game now and ever did throughout history. Didn’t kill us or the game. But VAR is killing the live experience. I promise you.
Would that be better or worse than what we have now.? – the false promise of perfection that is simply not achievable.
Before VAR and the intimate TV experience you could argue and complain all you wanted to. But deep down you knew it was possible you were wrong.
But that was back when football was about the fans and the players and the officials all doing the best they could. Now it has to be perfect and it just isn’t and shouldn’t be.
Or we could just let AI play out every match in a season in 30 seconds with an unfathomable algorithm that can’t be wrong. Then have the final results plugged into us.
I like batshit mental football. I like celebrating when we score. I love football, I pay good money to go. I hate VAR.
Steve, Manchester
F*** VAR
In response to Dan the Grumpy old football supporter
I could not agree with you more! VAR has taken away the absolute joy and absolute agony of football and given us utter dread. Get rid of it now.
Dylan, Seattle
VAR mindset
I think VAR’s biggest problem is simply one of motivation. It feels to me, certainly, that each goal is now reviewed by VAR not looking for any ‘clear and obvious’ errors, but rather for any reason whatsoever to rule the goal out. Okay, was the goalscorer offside? No. Were any hands involved in any part of buildup? No. How about the assist, any physical contact that could be a bit edgy? No? Oh wait, was there a player somewhere in the box that the goalkeeper could see? There was! Was he offside? Oh my lord, you know, if I freeze it on this frame I think the hem of his sleeve might have been. Well Q f*cking E D well done mate, you found it! Another win for VAR!
Similar thing to any challenge that is a bit robust. Let’s have a 5 point checklist, slow everything down to 1 frame per second, reverse the angle, no reverse it again, play it back, slow it down, pause it there: you know what, I think, yeah if I squint that could be dangerous. Pop that image down to the ref, call him to run 50 yards to the monitor and tell him lad should be off. Another win for VAR!
For whatever reason, the VAR officials seem to view their job as not correcting on field obvious mistakes, but rather enforcing the rules of the game to the nth degree with the benefit of technology. I liked the way the contributor yesterday said it reminded them of Brexit: we were told it was just for clear and obvious, but whisper it – they lied.
Ryan, Bermuda
VAR365
“The thing we value about football isn’t and never has been the correctness of 100% of decisions.” That sounds right, that’s certainly not everything we value about football. It has to be conceded though that getting decisions right is a pretty important part of the game. If anyone promised that VAR would cause decisions to be made correctly all the time they were not only mistaken, but also delusional. That’s obviously never going to happen because, as Jonny Nic rightly points out, people are not perfect. It’s also not possible to categorize many decisions as right or wrong since they are subjective and open to interpretation. Some of the decisions related to offside and whether the ball was out of bounds are objective, and therefore that much more galling when it’s clear that a mistake has been made. That’s still not an issue with the technology, but rather with the operators.
“why we can’t accept that occasionally a marginal decision will be made wrongly”? The problem is that it’s often not just marginal decisions that were made wrongly. Balls were significantly over the line and not called, and players were a yard on or offside.
“the making of mistakes was one of its attractions of football and that is a perfect reflection of humanity.” If that’s the case then surely Jonny must be overjoyed with VAR since apparently mistakes continue to be made. The addition of jeopardy to the process while waiting for a VAR review to be completed surely adds an element of suspense to football that was never there before, while the crowd waits breathlessly for a decision. They shout with delight, they gasp with disappointment…
What is it exactly that we value about football? For many it seems that it isn’t the spectacle of a well played contest, since both inside and outside the game many people throw their toys out of the plan whenever they don’t win. One of the greatest joys of football appears to be analyzing and arguing about it, and let’s face it that’s the only reason this site exists. If that’s the case then VAR just provides us an additional dimension to argue about.
If VAR didn’t exist then Mikel Arteta would have been ranting about the decision to allow Newcastle’s goal to stand, and doubtless moaning that there wasn’t the opportunity to have it reviewed.
Andrew – Canada
